Texas Holdem Poker

suckoutK · Newbie Joined: Mar 17, 2006 Posts: 2

Situation: 5 of 8 players remain in a friendly game after the flop. P1 and P2 check, P3 bets $3 (of $12), P4 goes all in with $8, P5 calls $8 (of $25)... and back around to P1 (folds), P2 (folds), and P3 who then decides to go all in and raise to $12 (creating a sidepot of $8 if P5 calls).

One player brought up the rule that if a player checks or bets small during their betting opportunity (ie. P3), they are no longer allowed to do anything but call. I don't own a No-Limit Holdem rulebook, and most sites I've found don't go this far indepth for this scenario. Also, most online holdem sites I've played don't seem to enforce this, so I had not heard of it before that hand.

Please help clarify this for us.

Thank you!

onemore · Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:25 pm Post subject:

I don't know for sure but i am almost certain you are aloud to raise for about 3 rounds or up to a maximum to a certain amount usually a multiple of big blind. But best to get a second opinion from the webmaster.

webmaster · Site Admin Joined: Nov 26, 2003 Posts: 668

Hi suckout and welcome.

P3 was entirely within their rights to do this. In fact it's a good strategy to mask a quality hand, suck other card catching players in to the pot and then go allin. Assuming P3 had the nut hand at this point the risk for them would have been that had noone else raised then other players would have drawn a free card. Reading what happenned here I'd say they played rather well (entirely within the rulebook). You move on to the next hand when all bets are matched.

suckoutK · Newbie Joined: Mar 17, 2006 Posts: 2

First, thank you for the responses. While discussing this with the other players, the issue seemed to boil down to what was considered a bet and/or raise. Their argument was based on the following scenario:

P3 bets $3 (6x big blind), P4 goes all in with $5 (call and raise of $2, which is not equal to or greater than the previous raise of $3), P5 calls ($5), and when it comes around to P3 again he only has the option to fold or call the additional $2.

I pointed out that the argument presented here did not apply to the original situation because the raise of $5 by P4 was a qualifying raise and would place the action on P3 to fold, call or raise.

Finally my follow-up question. Is it a No Limit Texas Hold-em rule (or a house rule) that the raise must be as large or larger than the previous raise?

Example: Post flop, P1 bets $1 (2x big blind), P2 raises to $4 (call $1 and raise $3), P3 calls the $4, and P4 raises to $7 ($4 call and raise of $3, which is equal to the previous raise). Could P4 only raise to $5 ($4 call and $1 raise)?

Thanks again for your help with these questions.

webmaster · Site Admin Joined: Nov 26, 2003 Posts: 668

The big blind in your example was 50c ($3 divided by 6). The first bet then had to be at least 50c, but if they chose to raise then they can do so by any amount over 50c. The only minimums in no-limit are that the big blind is matched or exceeded. How much you want to go over is up to you, then all following players must match your bet or raise it up further.

You are correct in your example. P3 bets $3, P4 goes allin for $5. All players after P4 must at least match $5 or fold, and P3 must come up for an extra $2 or fold all staked so far.

On your follow up question, no the raise (over $3 in your example) can be as small as you like subject to the minimum chip size. If the min chip size was $1 and the blinds were say $2, your P3 bet of $3 could be matched by $3 and a raise of $1 making a total bet by P4 of $4 as a minimum. P3 would have to meet the extra $1 or fold.

fubarcdn · Junior Member Joined: Dec 28, 2005 Posts: 13

I think that this is probably a house rule and not an actual rule of the game. In several friendly home games therre is a rule that you cannot check and raise. If you are playing a home game it is best to discuss the house rules ahead of time so arguements do not occur later.

MainStick · Junior Member Joined: Dec 28, 2005 Posts: 10

Rules surrounding Check-Raising are usually house rules and good to help people from getting beaten up... but unless check-raising is illegal as a house rule, it is usually allowed as a general rule of poker.
(I've got one house game where it is actually enjoyed - yeah they are sick)

Now the description of the bet of $3 and an all in Call of $5 ($2 more), whether or not it opens up the original better to a raise is again based on house interpretation... but the original poster seems like he got it right in follow-up.

Since the initial bet was $3 (that is now considered the base increment) - even if the blinds are .25/.50. So any raise must be at least the amount that was bet to them. So the raise allin of less than $3 needs to be called by the original better, it was not large enough to open up the original better to the option of re-raising. As p4 (think it was) just called, the original better was forced to only call (or fold).

Again - check local casino rules or again have a good conversation about this...

In NL & PL games the 3 bump rule I rarely see. It is usually used in limit style games. Limiting number of raises in NL or PL can set up situations where defensive raising comes into play... also considered a play of marginal ethics.

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